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Ernstina/Ernestine BLECHER b. 1830 Hessen-Darmstadt or Darmstadt, Hessen???

Ernstina/Ernestine BLECHER b. 1830 Hessen-Darmstadt or Darmstadt, Hessen???

Veröffentlicht: 1159660498000
Klassifizierung: Abfrage
Ernestine BLECHER m. 1850 NYC, NY Frederick DELGER. She was born Dec. 18, 1830. Various records say either Hesse-Darmstadt, Hessen-Darmstadt, and Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany. I believe there may have been confusion as to city versus state, and not having anything else to narrow things down, don't know where to search next!

I have tried to find any evidence of her in New York, but cannot find the marriage or the birth of her first child, Matilda DELGER b. June 24, 1849.

Frederick supposedly immigrated in 1847, but I cannot find him in NY either. They left NY in 1852 and arrived in San Francisco in 1853.

Although I have not seen name spelling variations for HER, I have tried searching different name spellings in NYC... and the closest I can find is an Edward BLEEKER who was listed in NYC directories from 1837-47 and 1851-52.

Any suggestions as to where to try to search for her birth record in Germany?

Thanks, Janet

Re: Ernstina/Ernestine BLECHER b. 1830 Hessen-Darmstadt or Darmstadt, Hessen???

Robert T. (Beiträge anzeigen)
Veröffentlicht: 1159662556000
Klassifizierung: Abfrage
Janet, like the U.S., Germany has always been made up of states, and in this particular instance, the state was Hesse-Darmstadt, the capital of which was the city of Darmstadt.

Back in the time period you refer to, New York City was only Manhattan. So am I correct in assuming that Friedrich and Ernestine lived in Manhattan?

Do you know just where in Manhattan they lived before moving out to California? What was their religious denomination? Back in that time period, the only marriage record that would be available would be the church marriage record. If you know just where in Manhattan they lived and what their religious denomination was, I might be able to tell you the likely church.

The state of Hesse-Darmstadt did not introduce the civil registration of births, deaths and marriages until 1876, so there would be no birth record for Ernestine Blecher. All that would be available would be her church baptismal record. But needless to say, you can't do anything in that regard until you do further research in the U.S. and find out exactly which city, town or village in the state of Hesse-Darmstadt Ernestine was born in.

You refer in your query to "various records". Could you be a bit more concrete? Exactly what records are you referring to?

Robert

Re: Ernstina/Ernestine BLECHER b. 1830 Hessen-Darmstadt or Darmstadt, Hessen???

Veröffentlicht: 1159665182000
Klassifizierung: Abfrage
Hesse-Darmstadt vs. Darmstadt, that is what I meant. There is nothing that tells me whether the reference is to city or state. The one SOLID record is a census record, but 'family' info seems to assume this means Darmstadt, which I think is only an assumption.

I don't know where they lived, as I have found NOTHING in NY with either name. I have checked census records in NY and PA for 1850 and find nothing. He was a shoemaker at that time and possibly travelling. It seems AMAZING that I have found nothing. I have my other German ancestors living in Manhattan about the same time and have found plenty for them. Hence the frustration!

I am guessing their religious denomination was Lutheran, but have found nothing there so far either. Perhaps they weren't particularly religious, and didn't bother with baptisms. There was a huge obituary for Frederick DELGER, with reference to the marriage in NYC but I don't know who provided the information for that, or where the information came from.

I have had luck with other searches by trying to jump to a possible town in Germany and just searching their church records. I was hoping there might be an opportunity... if she WAS from Darmstadt... to try searching church records there. Last time I looked (some time ago) LDS hadn't copied records for anything in Darmstadt.

I have many records for Frederick, but almost nothing for Ernestine. Family stories say when her husband died, she burned every evidence of her/their German heritage, because her children were "American, not German".

I would LOVE to find a marriage and a birth record in NYC. What is your suggestion for a church if they were Lutheran? There was one church I checked years ago, where I found my other German ancestors, but didn't see a marriage or a baptism for these folks.

Thanks for your ideas!

Janet

Re: Ernestina/Ernestine BLECHER b. 1830 Hessen-Darmstadt or Darmstadt, Hessen???

Robert T. (Beiträge anzeigen)
Veröffentlicht: 1159719111000
Klassifizierung: Abfrage
Janet, I have sent you a lengthy e-mail directly.

Robert

Re: Ernestina/Ernestine BLECHER b. 1830 Hessen-Darmstadt or Darmstadt, Hessen???

Janet Brown (Beiträge anzeigen)
Veröffentlicht: 1159738296000
Klassifizierung: Abfrage
I appreciate your background and your interest and your helpfulness! What I really need to do is get ALL of my records for these folks in one place for easier comparison, but I have done so many families that some of the records have been tucked in with later generations of the same family, and I can't put my hands on what I need!

I realise the census records refer to 'state', but some of the 'family' records say city of Darmstadt... I just don't know if the family records are accurate with that. They were proven WRONG on other city locations!

Several 'family' records for the marriage say 1850 (which was possibly their best guess, since I don't see a birthdate for the oldest daughter with those records), but I have since in the obituary seen the marriage date as May 21, 1848. (May 21, 1873 was the marriage date for daughter Annie DELGER, so there may have been an error there... OR they may have shared the same date. ONE of the family records says they were "married 1850 Germany"... that record didnt have the birth date for the older daughter, so I think that was an estimate.

Having not found the actual marriage record, the only weight to the last date is there was a (first, as far as I know!) child born June 24 1849. I MEANT to write 1848 as the marriage date, but was looking at an older sheet when I typed the first message here.

I believe I looked years ago for baptism records and none had survived, but I think I will look again. I should make up a list of things to look for for EVERY person I look for, and mark off that I tried and failed so I don't have to repeat failures! The birthdates for their children seem solid, and consistent between records I have found.

I have Ernestine's death record and an obituary, but the information is much less in her obit than it was for Frederick's. Frederick's obituary says he was married 50 years, which puts the date to 1848 (He died 25 April 1898, which is just short of 50 years if we use the May 21 date.)

I will have another go at the vital records!

Thanks for your help!

Janet

Re: Ernestina/Ernestine BLECHER b. 1830 Hessen-Darmstadt or Darmstadt, Hessen???

Robert T. (Beiträge anzeigen)
Veröffentlicht: 1159743591000
Klassifizierung: Abfrage
Janet, if Frederick and Ernestine really were married on May 21, 1848, the New York City Municipal Archives should have a marriage record on file, as I explained in my e-mail.

Robert

Re: Ernestina/Ernestine BLECHER b. 1830 Hessen-Darmstadt or Darmstadt, Hessen???

janet brown (Beiträge anzeigen)
Veröffentlicht: 1159744085000
Klassifizierung: Abfrage
I just did a calculation of the dates, for day of the week... the parents, if they WERE married on that date, were married on a Sunday, and the daughter, for whom I HAVE a marriage record in Germany, was married on a Wednesday! To me this gives more creedence to the earlier date being more likely... otherwise, why would a couple choose to be married abroad on a weekday (she was b. San Francisco, he was b. NY)???

Is a weekday wedding in a church a usual thing in Germany?

Janet

Re: Ernestina/Ernestine BLECHER b. 1830 Hessen-Darmstadt or Darmstadt, Hessen???

Robert T. (Beiträge anzeigen)
Veröffentlicht: 1159749958000
Klassifizierung: Abfrage
Janet, in what year did the marriage in Germany take place? Germany has not legally recognized church weddings since 1875. All couples in Germany must get married in a civil ceremony. If they so choose, they are of course free to have a church wedding as well at some later date. Were they married before or after 1875?

Couples do go to the Registry Office (in German: Standesamt) any day of the week to get married. A church wedding is more customary of course on a weekend, but if it's not going to be a big wedding, a couple can of course seek out a clergyman any day of the week they might want to as well.

Robert

Re: Ernestina/Ernestine BLECHER b. 1830 Hessen-Darmstadt or Darmstadt, Hessen???

Janet Brown (Beiträge anzeigen)
Veröffentlicht: 1159752571000
Klassifizierung: Abfrage
21 May 1873 - St Petri Lutheran Church, Hamburg, Germany. I have nothing that tells me why this church was chosen. I have, however located the groom's family FINALLY, south of there.. possibly Hamburg was the closest large town for families to converge.

I have also a note: civil record Hamburg, Germany 9 May 1873..

Janet
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